Season 3, Episode 7: WTF is a Roth IRA?

How paying taxes now on the money you want to invest saves the future you from paying taxes when you want to spend that money. Or something.

Should you pay income taxes now or later on all that money you’re earning?

Most of us think about putting our money in retirement accounts as a way to save on how much income tax we have to pay this year, as well as saving all of that money to live on after we retire. But, wait!

For many people who make under a certain amount of money (I’m pretty sure Sara says how much in this episode so you should listen), it might actually make more sense to put at least some of your investment dollars into a different kind of investment account. Enter: Roth.

Fun! Another financial tool to try to remember.

Sara breaks down what the “Roth” part of a Roth investment account means, and how it’s different than a non-Roth (normal?) investment account while Caitlin misunderstands for the 47th time. It has to do with taxes, people.

And if you just can’t live another moment without understanding more about how income taxes work, listen to our episode Women on the Verge of Doing Their Taxes!

Ask us your dumb investing and finance questions for Season 3 on our Ask Us page!

We have the social medias!! Here’s our Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn.

This episode was edited by our co-producer Kelly West. Music by Bad Bad Hats and Devmo.

Transcript for Season 3, Episode 7: WTF is a Roth IRA?

Caitlin [00:00:04] Welcome to women on the verge of a Financial Breakthrough, a podcast where we're figuring out finance. One dumb question at a time. I'm the dummy. Caitlin Meredith, a coach and mediator based in the Bay Area.

Sara [00:00:17] And I'm Sara Glakas. I'm an investor, advisor and founder of Blackburn Financial and the Austin Women's Investing Group, which can be found on Meetup and Facebook. Before we start, do you know a woman who might be on the verge of a financial breakthrough? Will you text her a link to our show? Also, if you can, please leave us a review. This helps other women on the verge find us, and we read all of them and they make us happy. Cry like this one from a listener who said, great investment of your time. Not only am I looking forward to listening more, but I'm actually taking baby steps towards owning my own finances. This is next level self-care and I am so grateful for this podcast. We love hearing from people who are taking baby steps. Thank you so much for that review. Now let's get started.

Caitlin [00:01:14] Today we're going to talk about.... Roth. What are they? Roth IRA? I got I thought I knew it with Roth IRAs.

Caitlin [00:01:24] Roth.

Caitlin [00:01:27] What is a Roth investment account? What is the hole?

Sara [00:01:30] Yeah, it's usually a Roth IRA, but that part. Right. But there are such things as Roth 400 and case.

Caitlin [00:01:39] Okay, well. Just let's talk about the general concept. And then if we could narrow it down to the practical things that the average person should know about it and consider about it. So I'll start again. Sara, what's a Roth IRA?

Sara [00:02:00] I'm so happy you asked Caitlin. A Roth IRA or any account that has the word Roth in it is a way to describe the tax treatment of the money that's coming into the account as a contribution, and then the way the money comes out as a withdrawal. So with a Roth account, the idea is that you go out in the world, you earn money and you pay taxes on those earnings. You put that after tax money into the Roth IRA once it's.

Caitlin [00:02:33] Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Okay, I have a job. I make. $50,000 in the year. And of that money, I'm usually taxed. I'm income tax $50,000. But instead I'm going to use some of that 50. I'm going to save some of that $50,000 and invest it in a Roth IRA. And you're saying that's pretax.

Sara [00:03:00] No.

Caitlin [00:03:02] I got it all wrong. I'm rusty.

Sara [00:03:08] Let's do it this way.

Sara [00:03:09] You earn $50,000.

Caitlin [00:03:10] Okay.

Sara [00:03:12] You pay $10,000 in taxes. So you have $40,000 left over.

Caitlin [00:03:16] Okay.

Sara [00:03:17] Of that $40,000, you carve out 6000 and you put it in your Roth IRA.

Caitlin [00:03:24] Okay.

Sara [00:03:25] So that's $6,000 contribution. It's post tax. It's after Tax.

Caitlin [00:03:31] It's not like my other investment account. It's not going to make me have to pay less tax. Not to. It doesn't affect my tax rate today.

Sara [00:03:41] Exactly. That's the difference between a Roth account and any other retirement account. If it does not have the word Roth in front of it, whether it's a 401 K or an IRA or a rollover IRA or Sep, IRA or simple IRA, if it does not have the word Roth in front of it, the money that goes in is pretax.

Caitlin [00:04:02] Okay, so it is my income. So it it makes it look like I made less money and I pay fewer tax, a lower tax rate on my income than you just didn't invest.

Sara [00:04:13] Right. You just get to put money in to your traditional or non Roth retirement account before paying taxes on it.

Caitlin [00:04:22] Okay. With the Roth however, they're like yeah, that's nice for you that you put money in the Roth. But we're not going to lower your taxes this year.

Sara [00:04:31] Not this year. You've already paid taxes on those earnings okay.

Caitlin [00:04:35] Okay.

Sara [00:04:36] So you put the money into the account. You invest it ideally over time, it grows and grows and grows. And when the money comes out in retirement. You don't pay any taxes on it because you already paid taxes back in the day.

Caitlin [00:04:51] This is a non Roth.

Sara [00:04:54] No, this is a Roth.

Caitlin [00:04:56] What the hell are you talking. Oh.

Caitlin [00:04:59] I pay taxes on it initially because I don't get them deducted from my income tax. So that's another way of saying. I really thought you lost the thread. Sorry, I can't follow the thread. I'm the problem. It's me. Okay, so as far as the government is concerned, it's already taxed that money that went into the Roth before. So when I withdraw it later, it's like, no, you're good to go.

Sara [00:05:30] You already you're good to go on that money. Yeah.

Caitlin [00:05:34] Whereas with the non Roth retirement account we don't pay taxes on it now. So it's like this sneaky not so sneaky but like feels good strategy to lower our taxes today. But surprise when we withdraw that money in 2050 or whatever that's going to be then we're taxed. It's like our income then. And so we pay income tax on it or some kind of tax then.

Sara [00:06:03] Exactly. You pay income tax then. So a lot of people call those non Roth accounts tax deferred.

Caitlin [00:06:12] Because you'll pay because.

Sara [00:06:13] Here you'll pay it just down the road.

Caitlin [00:06:17] Wow. Okay. How would you find out your tax rate? Is that does that appear on your tax return?

Sara [00:06:27] It usually does. Like on the first page. On the summary. You'll have, there'll be a section that shows your marginal tax rate.

Caitlin [00:06:35] Okay.

Sara [00:06:35] Which is what your tax bracket is when we talk about tax brackets. It's the last dollar of money that you earned is taxed at a certain rate. That's your tax bracket.

Caitlin [00:06:50] Okay.

Sara [00:06:51] There's, I think always, another number that shows the total tax that you paid divided by the money that you earned. And that's called your effective tax rate.

Caitlin [00:07:03] Okay.

Sara [00:07:05] So maybe people don't know that we're, in the US, we have a progressive tax system.

Caitlin [00:07:10] We explain that on the tax episode that you sort of like for the first 50,000 that you make is taxed at one rate. And then anything over that that you make is taxed at the next tier rate. So it's not all your money doesn't just go in the higher bucket. It's that you flood out the first. Oh my God. I'm using so many metaphors. You fill up the first bucket and get taxed fully on that, and that as much goes into the next year gets taxed on that. It's not all taxed at the same rate, right? Okay. So which tax rate are we using the effective one or the one you said before that.

Sara [00:07:48] Your marginal tax.

Caitlin [00:07:50] Marginal.

Sara [00:07:51] Marginal tax rate which is your tax bracket.

Caitlin [00:07:53] Okay. My marginal tax bracket is the one that I got to look at to see a am I can I invest in a Roth. That's actually a number. If I make over 138 an individual, then I have to do it in a fancier way. But anybody earning less than that can automatically do it. But to understand what tax bracket you're in, you can look on the first page of your tax return for that marginal rate.

Sara [00:08:22] Yeah. It's not the front page of your 1040 that there's usually a summary page that's created before the tax return actually starts.

Caitlin [00:08:31] Okay okay.

Sara [00:08:32] What was I talking about. So I don't know like usually rules of thumb are something like if you earn a lot of money today you're in the very highest tax brackets. So if you made over if you Caitlyn made over $578,000.

Caitlin [00:08:52] I would not be making this podcast with you.

Sara [00:08:54] The podcast is really blown up and you are now in the 37% tax bracket. You would probably choose to make a traditional non Roth retirement contribution to save that 37% today.

Caitlin [00:09:11] Yeah yeah.

Sara [00:09:12] Right. So you'll take the 37% today and worry about taxes in the future. Because we don't know what the future is going to be like. But we know that we're in the highest tax bracket today. Whereas like if the podcast doesn't take off oh, and you're in the lowest tax bracket. Yeah, you're maybe you're in the 10% tax bracket or the 12% tax bracket because your income is very low. Just pay the 10 or 12% on your earnings today, put the money into a Roth account, invest it really aggressively. And then whenever you decide to take that money out in the future when you're retired, it all comes out tax free and you've only paid 10 or 12% on it. When you originally put the money in.

Caitlin [00:09:53] You're shocking me again. I thought you were going to say like. Do. 80% in a regular one and 20% in a Roth, but you're saying it really depends on how much money you're making now, because that's the only sure thing you know. You don't know what it's going to be in the future.

Sara [00:10:13] Yeah, that's usually how I mean, I always start with what's the tax bracket today? And do I have some reason to think that I have a good idea of what my tax bracket will be in the future? And sometimes you can sometimes you can have a pretty good idea of like, well, I'm in the 22% tax bracket today. I'll probably be in the 22% tax bracket for the rest of my life. I mean, so then it doesn't really matter if you pay 22% today or 22% in the future.

Caitlin [00:10:45] So if you I anticipate remaining somewhat stable in your tax bracket between now and forever, then like. I never say this. Six of one half dozen of the other.

Caitlin [00:10:58] Half could go either way.

Caitlin [00:10:59] However, if you anticipate changes, either positive or negative, that's where some strategy might be helpful.

Sara [00:11:07] Right? If you have a big income year because your podcast takes off, you might choose one year in that year to put it in the tax deferred account. So to not pay taxes at 37%. And then the following year, if you just have a regular income year, maybe you choose to do a Roth. This happens a lot when people, when people get ready for retirement or when they do retire. Let's say you retire at age 65. You haven't thought of taking Social Security yet. You have very low income years because you're not working anymore. That would be a great time to either do Roth contributions or do something about to, like, throw this out to something called a Roth conversion, where you take money out of your pretax account, pay taxes on it, and then immediately move it into your Roth account.

Caitlin [00:11:58] Whoa whoa whoa, go backwards. Say this, like, very slowly. Sara. What's a Roth IRA? I'm about to catch up. No. You you. It's a Roth conversion. Tell me again.

Sara [00:12:16] A Roth conversion.

Caitlin [00:12:18] Yeah.

Sara [00:12:20] Is a specific transaction.

Caitlin [00:12:22] Okay.

Sara [00:12:24] Where you convert funds that are in a traditional IRA before it went okay. And you say, I would like to send this, I would like to convert $20,000.

Caitlin [00:12:39] So what you're telling me is I put 20,000 in my regular IRA, my step IRA. One year. And I say, and I, I avoid paying taxes for that 20,000 that year because it's hidden in my account, or I get credit for putting in that account. They think, oh, she'll pay it later. But if I'm like, I actually want to make that, I want to actually put it in my Roth. I can ask a financial institution to convert the 20,000 from the past year that I put in a traditional IRA into my Roth account, but then I pay the taxes. Right then.

Sara [00:13:22] Right. So people typically don't ask for this conversion until they are in a lower tax bracket. So if if you are in the 24% tax bracket, you might contribute to a traditional 401 K.

Sara [00:13:38] Because to lower your tax bracket, to.

Sara [00:13:40] Lower your taxes in that year, then you go on several years and you have a year where you take a sabbatical, you go part time, you don't work for a year. So you know, you're in a lower tax bracket that year. You don't have as much income. That would be a good time to go back and say, oh, maybe I can convert $20,000, pay taxes on it when I'm in a 10 or 12% tax bracket and move it over into my Roth, where I'll invest it. It'll grow and grow and grow. And then when the money comes out again, when I actually need it to spend it, it comes out tax free.

Caitlin [00:14:22] Everybody just bookmark that. That's a thing. I can't imagine That most Of us all have the wherewithal to put that all together. Do. Like both be in a high enough tax bracket that we don't want to save immediately or no, we do want to save immediately. So we do our conventional, but then anticipate a year where we're just a blip, where we're going to be lower. Like, I feel like our blips are like an emergency getting laid off, something like that, where the idea of paying taxes on this money is also not appealing. But you're saying and specific, like a specific Harvard professor who's going to be going on sabbatical For one year. Listen up because you have this option is 20,000 just a random number? Is that the limit that you can do for a conversion?

Sara [00:15:19] Yeah. There's no limit on a conversion. So this can be a really effective strategy. I'm sure that there are normal people that do it, but these are the types of things that financial advisors are paid to recognize when this is a good idea, right? We know at our we know what our clients tax bracket is. UB right now is the exact time when we're pinging our clients to say, how much did you earn this year? Can we make some pretty good estimates? Is there room to do a Roth conversion without bumping you up into the next tax bracket? Or we know that, you know, clients have retired, they've changed jobs, they've taken a break. They had a bad business year. So we know that and can kind of make lemonade out of lemons. It's one of the things that a financial advisor is trained to do automatically is you're doing, oh my gosh, I'm about to use this word that you asked about the other day account.

Sara [00:16:18] We're doing.

Sara [00:16:18] Tax bracket arbitrage.

Caitlin [00:16:21] Arbitrage. I want to do a whole episode on arbitrage. But okay, I am so glad this is where hiring a financial professional might just be what you need to do to really think through if this is good for like a lot of the advice we give is for everybody, they can do it. This feels like pretty specialized, and that there's people like you who can really take the whole 360 view of your financial portfolio, everything specifically to right now, this year, and run the numbers.

Sara [00:16:56] If you know what you're looking for. I'm sure there are Roth conversion calculators that are out there that you could that you could run them yourselves as long as you know it's a thing. And, you know, the general idea is you always want to try to pay taxes at the lowest rate possible. If you have a low income year, you're going to be in a lower tax bracket. So if you made $100,000 last year and pay taxes at that rate, if you only make $50,000 this year, you can think like, well, what if I did a conversion and replaced that $50,000 that last year I earned an income from working? I replaced that with a Roth conversion. So you're just trying to take all of that, all of the things that count as taxable income and, just kind of see from year to year where you might have the opportunity to do something like that.

Sara [00:17:52] Okay, I love this idea. I hope I can remember it for more than five minutes.

Sara [00:18:00] I'm going to already schedule another episode tackling this. So what if season four.

Sara [00:18:07] Is a Roth?

Sara [00:18:08] What's Sara?

Sara [00:18:10] What is a Roth? All right. Okay, just I feel like I'm already over my head, but let's just keep going on this Roth thing so I don't have to talk about them again for a year.

Sara [00:18:22] I mean, have we ever done did we have an episode where we talked about, like the like what I think of as like the order to go in for retirement contributions.

Caitlin [00:18:30] Yeah, but we should do it again because I wouldn't I don't remember first.

Caitlin [00:18:35] Your 401 K contributions enough to get the March 2nd max out your Roth IRA next, max out your 401 K up to $22,500. If you're under the age of 50, or $30,000 if you're 50 or older. Once you've done all of that, then you maybe come back to be like, oh, well, I have another batch of money.

Caitlin [00:19:00] I'm starting to relate to this person in.

Caitlin [00:19:05] High school people. My hostility level is it's kind of skyrocketing right now to these people that are like, what do I do with all this extra money?

Caitlin [00:19:16] Yeah, I mean, I think the main point is like, if you're under the $138,000 income limits and there's different limits if you're married, filing jointly, max out your retirement accounts at work. And then if there's still money left over. I mean, at that point, you might be in at an income level where you should loop in a professional.

Caitlin [00:19:38] Yeah, that's what I was going to say is if you're making this money, much money to have all these like, good problems about how to maximize like you can afford to pay a fee, fee fee only. Fee based. Yeah, yeah. Fiduciary advice for a couple hours of their time to look over your portfolio. That's what I'm. That's what. This episode is over. I'm not catering to this.

Caitlin [00:20:07] That's not what this podcast is about.

Caitlin [00:20:09] But I really am shocked that you, I mean, you I remember you saying this to me. We were getting drinks at this balcony bar on Congress, and I was so proud of how much money I'd put that year in my step. IRA. And you're like, oh, I wish you put that in a Roth. And I Was like, what. I get now, I get that if you if you have access to it, it's one of the few benefits we get. If you're making below a certain amount of money. Yeah. Access to this financial.

Caitlin [00:20:42] It's like the low income bonus.

Caitlin [00:20:45] Okay. And the problem is, when you're low income, the idea of paying more taxes than you, like technically have to because you chose to put it into a Roth instead of a sapphire. Might not feel financially feasible. Like you're you're you're investing in that retirement account both because you want you need the money in retirement, but also because like, okay, that saves me $1,000 in taxes and I don't have an extra thousand dollars, right. So totally that that it's like a bonus for low income. But it also there's a consequence for it in your real life, which might not be accessible for you right now, but if it is in the realm of the accessible or it is not all or nothing, you can do half get the tax savings right now from half of the money that you've saved for retirement this year, and put the other half in Roth, so balance them out.

Caitlin [00:21:38] That's a great point. Those are all great points and how I feel. So I'm so sorry that I shamed you.

Caitlin [00:21:46] Oh no you didn't hover. It wasn't that dramatic, I think. I Think you introduced the idea that on second thought, some of it might have been really nice for a Roth, but it was a year where I made more money than I had expected to make. And so I was so excited to have that extra money. You know there was two things going on. One like holy shit, I'm going to have to pay more taxes. You know this is crazy. I need more money. So I'm going to have to have it. So it was a way to sort of balance out so that my tax would be the same as it had been the year before. Yeah. By doing the max in my step IRA, which makes complete sense for me then, because the idea of a higher tax bill had always been so scary to me because I was just paying like exactly what I could afford into it. What this gets back to is all of the muscles that you don't use for building a financial future, when you feel like you're living closer to the margin.

Caitlin [00:22:48] Absolutely.

Caitlin [00:22:48] And so the priority is always, how do I spend less? How do I do this? And the idea of paying a little bit more for a longer term investment or a Roth that will you'll benefit from in the future. Like you don't always have the benefit of thinking like, what will I would it be like when I'm 55? And I'm like, your priority is right now? Right. And so I think that's what it really introduced to me when you're like, oh, Roth, that would be like. I didn't even think of myself as in a category to do something creative or different, like with a scramble rather than. Sara, you did not shame me. You introduced this idea. I didn't yet feel like I had access to a lot of choices in this arena, and so it was funny to be sort of pushed there and put there by this good luck of getting an extra job and then being like, oh, it's actually more complicated than to make money decisions than it is when you don't have very much money. It's pretty easy, like, to know where the money has to go. This is we're getting into something beyond Roth, but it is something that I think it sounds like a fancy ballon whistle, not something that a low income person would do as their first choice. Yeah. And so I'm just surprised, even though I kind of knew what they were, that's still something that I need to hear that message. I have to really. Lock into Vanguard. Because I have not. I don't either. Roth was like. You know, if you can. Not like that, it should be up there. So I think that's value.

Caitlin [00:24:26] I think it should be up there. Right. Because like if you're starting soon enough and if you are aggressive enough. Right. So if you have the faith that you have now, Caitlin faith, then you can grow that you can grow that contribution in the Roth IRA by a lot. Again, like, are we trying to double it every 7 to 10 years? And then all of it comes out tax free when you're a little old lady. That part.

Caitlin [00:24:56] Amazing is.

Caitlin [00:24:57] Pretty awesome.

Caitlin [00:24:58] Caitlin of 2044 just loves that idea.

Caitlin [00:25:02] Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's a Caitlin of 2024. That's like listen me first. Okay.

Caitlin [00:25:11] Is there anything else in this realm of the Roth that you think a woman on the verge of a financial breakthrough should understand or think about practically for her own money?

Caitlin [00:25:23] Yeah. I think when it comes to the Roth IRA, you should understand that if you are under the income limits, you can look those up on the IRS website. You may be eligible to contribute to a Roth IRA, even if you've maxed out your retirement contributions or you've made a certain number of retirement contributions in another account, like in your 401 K. So, a lot of times people think that they don't qualify to make a Roth contribution if they contribute to their work sponsored plan, but that's not the case. Your your IRA is tied to you as an individual. And then your work retirement account is tied to work. So I would say if you're if you don't already have a Roth IRA open, or if you don't know if you have one open and aren't sure whether you can contribute to it even a little bit. Take a look at those IRS guidelines to see if you if you do actually qualify and try to get, try and get a little bit into that Roth account and then ratchet up the return, potential by investing that account as aggressively as you can possibly make yourself go, because that's where you want all of the high growth investments to be is in that Roth IRA.

Caitlin [00:26:42] And, I'll just say, as a freelancer, I have a Roth, so you don't have to be tied to work at all. To it's not related to having a traditional job or not. Anybody can offer one. I'm sure what I did was call Vanguard and be like, hey, my friend Sara says, I need a Roth.

Caitlin [00:27:02] Can you make an account for me? There you go. Is Roth.

Caitlin [00:27:06] So that's easy. Very easy to open. And then the and it's easy to because you don't have to track your contributions for the year because nobody cares. So you don't have to report it to your CPA or anything like that. You just do them. But is there a max per year?

Caitlin [00:27:22] There is. It's $6,500, for any IRA. So whether it's a Roth or a traditional or a combination of the two, you as a person can put $6,500 into IRAs. If you are under the age of 50, and once you turn 50 in that calendar year, you can add another thousand dollars. So then your contribution limit is 7500.

Caitlin [00:27:47] Okay. And those are true for IRAs, but not a solo 400 and K.

Caitlin [00:27:52] Correct. The solo right. That's the step. The simple. The solo 400 and K. that work the employer sponsored 41K. Those have different contribution limits.

Caitlin [00:28:02] Okay. But specifically the IRAs, whether it be Roth or not, would be okay. Oh, God. I'm so glad we talked about Roth and got it done.

Caitlin [00:28:18] But I do.

Caitlin [00:28:18] Think we should bring it up again because you wouldn't have been. I wouldn't have told someone to do it right away, you know? And I just use, like, my third hand advice. Well, I guess second hand you to me. So that second hand. And I need to start putting that in my mix. A Roth people have to do that. Roth.

Caitlin [00:28:36] Okay. Okay.

Caitlin [00:28:39] Well thank you. When we when, you know, when we're old and not working anymore.

Caitlin [00:28:45] I did it. I did my first Roth conversion this year only. Wow. So pretty excited about it.

Caitlin [00:28:54] Congratulations.

Caitlin [00:28:55] Thank you.

Caitlin [00:28:56] I didn't I thought you looked different.

Caitlin [00:29:01] Part of my rationale was, you know, something like. Oh, like, if, you know, even though the market's up this year, right. It's like, oh, like, if we're at the beginning, if we could be at the beginning of a new bull market, if that's, you know, potential, then I'd love to get more money into that Roth account now. You know, I'm 44. I've got several years of investing left to do. Kind of get it in there and get that clock ticking. But I'd never done it for myself after doing however many for clients. I've never done it for myself before.

Caitlin [00:29:32] Oh, this is exciting. Okay. Financial goals. My first conversion. My first. Conversion. Yeah,.

Caitlin [00:29:41] Taking my own medicine.

Caitlin [00:29:42] And I'm. And I'm sure just like all of my clients, like, as soon as I get my tax bill in April, I'd be like, why Is my tax bill so high?

Caitlin [00:29:50] Like, oh, I did that Roth conversion.

Caitlin [00:29:52] Right, exactly. So there's a lot of planning involved because just, that April, it always comes around and you're like, oh.

Caitlin [00:30:01] Totally forgot all of the things that you did.

Caitlin [00:30:04] Yeah. This year I'm already doing the next year, buddy. Like, that is so last year, all that stuff. Okay. So that's another thing is to just it's not only putting the money aside that you'll put in the Roth, but extra money for your taxes. So can you do that? Can you do that?

Caitlin [00:30:22] Make sure you have that money set aside.

Caitlin [00:30:24] Okay. Okay. Sara, thank you for knowing so much about this. So that the rest of us don't have to.

Caitlin [00:30:33] I hope this was helpful. I hope I can to sleep. Yeah.

Caitlin [00:30:37] Unsubscribe.

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Sara Did you have a question about finance or investing? Send it to us in an email or voice memo on our website. Womenontheverge.com.

Caitlin Hey, we want our listeners to know that economic abuse can be subtle, but it's a serious form of control. Watch out for partners who limit your access to money. Sabotage your job or rack up debt in your name. If this sounds familiar, know you're not alone and there's help available. Please learn more at the hotline.org or call 800 799 safe.

Sara This episode was edited by our co-producer Kelly West, with music by Bad Bad Hats and Devmo.

 Music outro by Devmo

Devmo I know the first thing you notice is that I'm covered in gold, the flick of the wrist it could turn a hot bitch cold, to get what you want in life girl you gotta be bold. Now Imma die rich, and I know...

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